July 14, 2023

Did you know that design principles can increase ticket averages by influencing your customers’ behavior at menus and XPTs?  Through the strategic use of color and layout, design can trigger specific responses and influence purchasing decisions. A well-designed product can enhance user experience, build trust and drive customer engagement.

Transcript

Scott Ginter, SUDS Creative Director:  Welcome everybody. This is actually the first webinar that's dedicated to strictly design only. So we're super excited. It's centered around how design decisions can influence behavior, specifically around the points of sale and on your site. Before we get there, we're gonna wait for some more people to funnel in and Derek's gonna cover some quick housekeeping notes.

Derrick Burton, SUDS Art Director- Yeah. There we go. So, yeah, just to kind of some just technical housekeeping before we get started, just, you know, through a few things to point out, if you want to communicate with us during the meeting, if you have a question, you can click the QA button at the bottom of your screen and then type your question. At the end of the webinar, we'll answer as many as we possibly can. Like Scott said, we're talking about design psychology, the influence of behavior at the point of sale. Before we jump into all that, we're gonna introduce ourselves. So Scott, go ahead and start us.

Scott: Yeah, absolutely. So quickly, I just, you know, I've been at SUDS since 2019 and prior to SUDS, I worked at an ad agency called VSA Partners in Chicago, and under that VSA ad agency umbrella, I was in charge of either art direction design or creative direction on some level for some of the big name brand clients, Wilson Golf, CB Richard Ellis Group, Peak 6 Investments and most recently Pop Sockets. I think when I joined SUDS in 2019, I noticed quickly that I wanted to do two things primarily just from a mindset perspective, and that is bring simplicity and clarity to any sort of complex communication or design issue that I would see in the marketplace. And I noticed a lot going on site that we could quickly fix and really impact revenue quickly, you know, outside of that tactical stuff. I think though, what I'm most proud of so far is building a creative department full of really talented designers and illustrators, copywriters that really we've been serving our clients now award-winning work for the last three years.

Derrick: Yeah. Now my name is Derrick Burton. I'm an art director here at SUDS. I've been with SUDS since 2017 to now, and in my wheelhouse I've got about 11 plus years of design experience. I've worked at places such as Fly Racing and OtterBox in my past, and my big goal as an art director is to just make sure that we're meeting the standards that we believe that you deserve, that our clients deserve with campaigns and design oversight over our small design team. So yeah, that's all of us, like Scott said, we've had some awards nominated for us, we're award-winning branding agency. We have noticed that a 13% uptick in menu ticket average for all clients who work with us. And on the right there you can see just a couple of different of the awards that we've won in the last couple of years. This is all based off of really how we think about design and our philosophies around design. And really we have like one really big philosophy and I'll let Scott talk more about that.

Scott: Yeah, sure. We love this quote and I think this is really meaningful to us and the value we bring. This is a good designer knows how to put information into the design. A great designer knows which information is not necessary. Paul Rand, Saul Bass, Milton Glacier, these are something what we like to call the holy trinity of 20th century designers. Between them, they've designed a staggering amount of, of big client work, big client brands. AT&T, IBM. Rand is arguably probably the most influential. And the reason why I think this is important to set the stage with is you're gonna see how we really bring simplicity and clarity across all your touchpoints. So I think for us, the three big takeaways after the presentation is, the first one is where design has the biggest impact. We're gonna solely focus on your onsite.

So when you first pull into your lanes, your pay stations, your menus, that tunnel experience, we're really gonna drill down on where we have the biggest impact. The second one is, you know, what influences, what are some of the key tactics we used if I were to, you know, create a overarching theme, it's reducing cognitive strain across all touch points and we'll show you some of those cool tactics we use. And then how we do that as is visual shortcuts. And we sort of based our principles off Paul Rand's philosophy and that's group, you know, grouping simplicity of market grouping objects, similar elements, recognizing patterns to any complex patterns. And we do that through contrast, hierarchy and alignment. But to get there, first, I think it's important for to understand you how two hemispheres of the brain work. And if you go to the next slide, yeah. So to break this down in its simplest form, you have two hemispheres of the brain.

The left side typically is your near instantaneous, your system one. And that happens system one is something that happens automatically. It's reflexive, it's instinctive, it's intuitive, it happens with literal effort or zero thought really. And it's very emotive. And if you can see that last bullet point, limited time, but you spend more money, if you can keep your consumers in that reflexive emotive state, they will spend more money. And that requires limited time. System two of the brain is much more slower, it requires much more effort, it's conscious, it's logical, it's very more methodical and analytical and there's nothing wrong with system two. There's definitely space for that. But for strictly, if you want somebody to make a decision quickly and fluidly keeping 'em in system one is the name of the game.

So those, we're gonna show you some examples further in the presentation is when we're talking to somebody, we can show you, here's a great example of keeping somebody in system one and here's another example of keeping in some system two. And you can see the trade-offs through design work that we do. And yeah, I think you'll find it, you'll find it very interesting. Let's first start off with that, focusing on the map. We did a map of the car wash site in your space and Derrick's gonna walk you through tactically where we have the biggest impact.

Derrick: Yeah, so the areas of influence on a carwash site, whether you're an IBA or an express, it still boils down to roughly the same place. It's really when we're talking about the influence on purchase decision, we're talking about lanes, we're talking about menus, and we're talking about pay stations. This is our high level of influence. The other spaces are either from medium to low. So what I want you guys to do here is imagine that you're the consumer, you're driving down the road and you're saying, I need to get a carwash. I'm kind of, I'm, you know, in this day and age, everybody's very busy. I'm on my way home or to work or to wherever, maybe kids' soccer club, whatever, and I need to get just a quick carwash and go in. So as you're driving down the street, you're gonna see this either you know, a pylon or a monument or a building sign that says carwash and it's got your branding on it.

This is mostly brand awareness and it's getting them, they've made that conscious decision, I need to get a carwash, let's bring, that's just bringing them in, letting them know where they're going. So once they come in and they get into the pay station, or sorry, into the lanes, the stacking lanes, this is where they're starting to think about what wash do I want to get? What level do I want to get? And as they're waiting potentially for the actual pay stations, they're thinking about what is it that I want to get? They get up to the menus, they're starting to dig through those menus, they're making that purchase decision there. Pay stations, they're actively choosing what they want. So that's really our highs.

As you leave there and you go through the car wash tunnel or you're in the car wash tunnel, this is more experiential. This is just reinforcing that your brand is good and everything like that. And then after they leave, it's that re-engagement trying to get them to come back for a future, a future visit. So today we're gonna focus mostly on the lanes, menus and pay stations sections and really how we utilize these different effects to emphasize purchase decision at those places. So next we have what influences consumer decisions. So what are some of those tactics that we utilize to influence?

Scott: So I could start off here. So these three buckets are called design influencers. So look at the first bucket here, storytelling. If you were imagine like if you were wanting to buy a new shoe and you go to, you know, Famous Footwear, some Nike outlet, and you walk into the retail space, if they're merchandising a new shoe, they're most likely, if not all the time, they're gonna leverage their logo, which Nike, I think it means like victory. It's Greek for meaning victory, it's aspirational. Just do it. That's their brand ethos. Just do it. And below that or around that, you might see a visual of the actual new shoe, that's rising above the product. It's quick storytelling in seconds, like you get the point you're gonna move on versus something much more, this is what we call laundry list marketing, but they're not telling a story you would have to read in a sense to buy a new shoe. Nike is an American multi-international corporation that is engaged in design, development, manufacturing and worldwide marketing, sales, footwear, apparel, equipment, accessories and services, blah, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. You've already lost them. So that, we lean on that. That's a great example of system two where it's analog, it's very analytical versus system one on the left, Just Do It. That's reflexive and emotional.

The second bucket, information overload, that's pretty, pretty self-explanatory across all your touch points. We're gonna reduce cognitive strain and we'll show you some on the menu using specific examples to that. And then the most important variable is time. You know, we all know when time is short, we don't have the luxury of painstakingly breaking down and assessing all the pros and cons of which package to buy or you know, what if you wanna become a member or not. So when we're rushed, we don't take into account all of the factors that come to play with that decision. Instead what we do is we rely on shortcuts, visual shortcuts to steer us in the right direction. That goes back to the just do it sign. These are visual shortcuts to just simply steer you in the right direction. One example of a brand who really did a great job with storytelling versus laundry list marketing was Coldstone. On the left is a classic case of laundry list marketing.

I think we've all been to, you know, you go to a restaurant, you have to wait to get a table and when you finally get that table after 45 minutes, it's loud, the lighting's bad. You can't even hear the waitress or waiter tell you the specials of the day because they, they put this bible in front of you of the menu and you have to now it's now your job to figure out what you want. That's not storytelling. What is storytelling is what Coldstone figured out is if you want one single scoop of ice cream, it's called like it, if you want two scoops, it's called love it. That's it. Three scoops of ice cream is gotta have it. And we joke around and we say like if Coldstone, if we were to devise Coldstone on if they need an add additional menu item of four scoops of ice cream, at that point we'd devise them to call it just eff it.

That's storytelling. That's storytelling, that's brand stickiness. You are absolutely gonna remember this menu, these menu items, the names of them, the colors, and then you link that back to the logo, which all then links back to the experience. Again, classic, this is fantastic example of system one. So we love that as an example. And so here's another little that starts to lean in a little bit of like how are you naming your package names? What are the names of your campaigns? Like, just really start to think about how you're leveraging some of these case studies. So there's this really interesting study done of names and how we look at names. There was an analysis done of like 89 randomly selected companies that began trading shares in the New York Stock Exchange from like 1990 to 2006. And the studies found that those companies with easier to pronounce names, outperformed those with difficult to pronounce, pronounce names by almost 10% variance. So how does that, how did this phenomenon relate to ticker codes? Well they did the same exact study of a comparable analysis of three letter stock ticker codes at the Chicago Board of Trade and ticker symbols that may, you know, would spell KAR like K-A-R versus difficult to pronounce codes such as maybe like RDO or XDO on the American Stock Exchange outperformed those with difficult to pronounce ticker codes.

So this is simply saying, the simpler you keep even down to your name, it will outperform difficult to pronounce names. And that's related to the marketplace, which is incredible. This psychology behind this is when we can picture our process names quickly and effortlessly, we not only like that thing more, but we also think it's more valid and worthwhile. So really keep that in mind when you're thinking through how you're naming and your packages maybe. So maybe you're running promos or campaigns. Those little details matter.

Derrick: Definitely. Yeah, I love that. And I think this also kind of leads into our next section, which is information overload. The reason it does is that if you have to think about how to pronounce a word and you're like, you struggle with that, it is in a weird way kind of like cognitive overload. So I'm gonna talk a little bit about information overload and how we, you know, battle against information overload, especially with things such as menus, which is one of our big points here. What we're gonna look at in the next couple slides are some examples of maybe not the best designs ever because of some of their, they're lacking some of these gestalt principles. Gestalt principles are basically design principles that we utilize in-house that most marketing agencies or designers utilize to help you read something and make sure that you understand how things are supposed to function and then also to influence the consumer into where you want them to read more often.

This menu specifically does a a somewhat decent job of like putting your prices everywhere. That's like easy to see. But one of the big things that we called out that we realized was that the top package has the lowest contrast against the background out of all of the other ones. It literally like disappears into the background. So if you take a quick glance at this and you just pass by it, you may not even notice that that top package is actually a package. Not only that, but the very bottom package getting into color theory a little bit is bright green. And in the case of you know, the world and stoplights green means go and it's bright and it's very positive moving and we've put it as our bottom package. So you're driving people to that bottom package by doing that. The last thing on this one that we really wanna call out from that cognitive strain conversation is all of these icons that are on here are super detailed. They're really, really high detail icons. And once you start having the multiple icons, the same icons on each single package, people are gonna start going, oh, oh, do I have that on that package? Oh, maybe I have it on this package. Oh, maybe, oh, maybe I want this one because it's got just these two items, maybe I don't need those other two. And you've moved out of system one and you've moved into system two. And that's where we don't want them, we want them making reflex decisions.

On this next one, this is a little test that we do in-house that anybody can do and we call it the squint test. And we're gonna do a little poll here and see how people respond. We're gonna ask you to look at these, do the squint test so you squint your eyes to get rid of a lot of that excess detail. And I want you to tell us where does your eye focus and what do you see first? Is it the middle, is it the bottom, is it the top package? Which ones is your eye jumping to the quickest? I'll give you a few minutes here, just a couple seconds. All right. I'm seeing some of that stuff come in. It's looking like the majority of people are saying the middle package, which is right on, when you do a squint on this, that bright orange is very, very bright and it's jumping right out at you, it's grabbing your attention and it's because it's got really nice high contrast with, with that against that blue background. It's a complimentary color. So it goes against that blue background. Your top package is blue and it's the same color as that background. So it starts to semi disappear into the background and that bright green once again, maybe it's, you know, from a size standpoint it's smaller and that's helping.

But green once again kind of means go. And so in from a color theory standpoint, people are, are going to be primed and want to move that direction. The last thing on this one too that we didn't really talk about other ones is just visual noise. This one has a lot of cognitive strain just from the background bubbles. They're very, very loud. They're just as important as from a contrast standpoint as the packages on top of them.

So you're causing people to actually have to kind of stop and live in this like staticky area of bubbles. And that causes a lot of confusion and can slow people down. And so something that we try to avoid, our last option here is just, we wanna make a comment about this cause we've seen this every once in a while. This is very much a, this is the epitome of a laundry list menu. You have immediately set your consumer into a system two, logical thinking by put basically putting them into an Excel sheet. And by looking at this, they're going, okay, I'm gonna, oh, I'm gonna compare every single one of these things against each other. Admittedly this menu does do a good job with color, everything like that to draw you towards that top package. But you're still, you're pitting your packages against each other and creating a system where people are going to nitpick. And that's what we don't want. There's a really interesting study about about time that Scott's gonna talk about here next.

Scott: No that's perfect. Very cool study how time limitations can drastically affect how viewers of a camera preferred their choices. So when you kind of think about this, think about how, how consumers look at your menu in terms of features under each package and compare it to this quick little study, these reports, they compare two brands of camera features. One brand was superior on three most important features to consider when buying the camera. So lens, file storage, battery life, the other brand was rated superior on eight features, but they were relatively unimportant. One of 'em might include a shoulder strap per se. So some viewers were exposed to information about the 12 features for only two seconds per feature. 17% preferred the higher quality camera, the majority opted for the brand with greater number of unimportant advantages.

When the viewers were given five seconds per feature, the pattern changed somewhat, but only 38% preferred the higher quality camera. It wasn't until the final setup set of observers that were allowed unlimited time to consider the feature information, the pattern completely reversed. The majority, 88% favored the camera with fewer but more significant advantaged, which would be camera number two. You know, with unlimited time, consumers overanalyze the amount of items on an average selected camera two the less impressive cameras.

So it's really going to show you that the amount of features under a package, it doesn't really matter to your consumer. We joke about in-house a little bit where we're like, we can see sometimes menus or rack cards that are designed from operator to other operators, not from operator to consumer. And so this study sort of hammers home our point, which is, you know, features matter, like, you know, right next and those brand names, they matter, but at the end of the day, just because there's a lot of 'em, it doesn't make it more impressive. And that's why if you go to the next slide, oh yeah, you know what you can tell.

Derrick: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is cool. So this is really kind of fun and I think it's a fun way to kind of take that, that case study that you just talked about and boil it down to something really simple that you'll understand very quickly. So we're gonna go through this. I'm gonna flash an image on the screen and I want you just to think, what do you see when you see it? So that was pretty quick. It was very, very fast.

Scott: First thing that comes to mind.

Derrick: What's the first thing? Just think about it. What's the very first thing that comes to your mind? And now we're gonna do it for just a little bit longer. So at this point, I'm guessing that majority of you were probably thinking, oh, okay, it is some kind of Disney princess related thing. You know, I saw the pink and all the colors and it's, you know, it just indicative now with unlimited time, really look at this image and think about what you're seeing and you, I would guess that majority of you guys are out there probably all cackling and laughing at this image because it is really goofy. I mean there are legs coming out of heads and there's arms coming outta necks and I like, I particularly like the teapot in the back that has a full body.

You've seen this a million times, it's never not creepy.

It's never not creepy and it's never not funny. Yeah. And so what are we getting at with this? Is that this is really why design matters. This is why it's so important because if somebody has a short amount of time, we don't want them to have to wait and wade through everything and look at the ones that have the packages that have the most items. One thing that we come across quite often when we're designing our menus is that we'll do this thing where it's includes everything plus includes everything plus includes the next one plus. And what ends up happening a lot of times is that your second to top package, more often than not gets more items added to it from the one before it than the top one does.

From that usually the top one only gets the two like most expensive like premium products added to it. And so if you leave it in this style, which is very much that laundry list, it actually doesn't look like it's that good of a job or that good of a value. It's not as good of value to jump to that next one, why would I do it? I'm only getting two things more. But if you do that squint test that we did before and you look at the right one here, using our gestalt principles of size, hierarchy, layout and everything, we can drive your eye to that top package and that's where you're gonna want to visually sit and you're going to feel that it's got more value because it's larger and because it's more important than the rest. So this is really why design is super important on menus as well as on our pay station screens, a lot of what we talked about, which is that, you know, cognitive strain and everything.

You can see on the left one here, there is a lot going on, there are a lot of features and they're very detailed logos and icons and things like that. And you kind of just don't know where your eye should rest. Your eye bounces around, there's a busy background, your eye is swooped by that red swoop down to the prepaid cards, where am I supposed to be looking? Whereas in our version of something similar to this, it's not an exact direct version of it, but similar we have, you know, it's very clean and our eye goes directly to that top package because of that contrast and difference.

The last thing to talk about with time, something, especially with pay stations to kind of keep going with that theme is a thing that we'd like to call learnability. This is a UI/UX practice and it really has to deal with the ability for somebody to come into a system or an interface and understand how to use it instantaneously. How fast does it take or how many repetitions does it take for somebody to be able to use it. I really like to compare this to doors and this is a great little gif, everybody remembers this. If you're of that age and you know, doors are a very good proxy for what we're trying to create with pay stations, somebody should be able to come in and understand how it works immediately for it to be a well-designed door. Somebody walks into a door, they should know it, that they have to push it or pull it immediately. If they don't, it's frustrating. You sit there and you're like, dang it. Like I feel dumb. And we don't want our consumers to feel dumb, we never do.

So with our XPT screens, we do that exact same thing. We use that learnability standpoint as kind of our philosophy for these. So in the top options here, you'll see this is a design, a really well thought out design. And we're looking specifically at buttons and color placement here. So look at those bottom buttons on there and you'll notice that what we like to call negative buttons or buttons that move you back in the process are turned down. So not today, start over. They have a low contrast and they're moving you to the left in the, you know, and they're in the same place from screen to screen. It doesn't really matter too much whether the buttons are on the left or the right, just as long as you have the contrast and the hierarchy correct and that you're consistent.

Consistency's a really big point here. When you get to the second set of ones here, you'll notice that we change the color on the buttons to make them kind of more that red stop. You know, don't click this. Somebody might inadvertently see as like that might be a go back button if they don't read it and they just click quickly. Also, the buttons aren't in the consistent spot. So say you go and you hit, okay, sign me up, I you, you've sold me, I wanna upgrade it to the unlimited, I click sign me up, I see terms and conditions, I quickly just skim it and I'm like, oh I want to keep moving and I click the same place where sign me up was, well now it's start over and the whole thing, I have to go through the whole thing again and I'm frustrated. People are behind me waiting to get in line and everything like that.

So once again, when it comes down to time, just making things easy, simple, keeping people in system one, they don't have to think, don't have to think moving forward. And with that, that's one of our kind of mini visual shortcuts. We have some more visual shortcuts that Scott's gonna start off with here.

Scott: Yeah, it's really interesting in terms of how human beings like to receive information. We can boil it down to two different patterns. Well you could argue a third pattern has emerged in the last five to eight years. And those are, that's called headline reading, which we're all guilty of. We just read the headlines, we read the the sentence underneath it and then we're literally onto the next story. We have no idea what the article actually was about, but these are the two universal patterns that they're old as a test of time. One of them is the F pattern. And the F pattern is you start off, you wanna receive information. So the first area you go in any given medium is the top left.

So you're first gonna go to the top left and then you go from left to right, right to left down, back to the right, over to the left and down. And so that forms the letter F with your eye. And I'll show you a perfect example of how we leverage this universal truth. The contrasting example would be a commitment pattern. This is your, just your traditional reader. They want to intake every single word on every single page throughout the entire text. And those are called, that's called the commitment pattern. But going back to system one versus system two, that is a great way to keep somebody in system two, which requires time, capacity and will. Which when you're an express tunnel, you don't want them and you wanna keep them in system one. So let me show you an example of how we leverage the F pattern.

So here you notice one of our, one of our menus that if you again go use the squint test, squint your eyes, notice how we're channeling your focus at the top package. Notice how the hierarchy, the top package is the biggest in terms of scale, but we're telling you without you really even knowing yet where to channel your eyes. And that is top left first is the name of the package and and the branding. So from left to right is the package amount.

So the Besty package costs $18 bucks from then you go back to the left and then down. So number three is how much does this cost for me to become a member? It's $29.99. And notice the tapering effect we have from top to, from the top to the bottom. This allows a user to quickly do back of the hand math while they're waiting in a stack and they already made their decisions by the time they get up to that XPT, it's quick, it's seamless, and if you calculate these little micro decisions across the calendar year, it's a big deal. So that's the F pattern. The other little tactic we use is called.

Derrick: Before you move on from the F pattern. One thing to call out too is that we're not the only ones who have figured this out. If you go to websites, any kind of like, you know, any kind of website that's like either news website or anything like that, you'll notice that they really do think about this. This is the weather channel and like they've got it nailed down. The very first thing they want you to see federal emergency declared and the northwest for flooding and that was the first thing that they wanted you to see. The next thing, maybe your local area downtown closed, the third one you've moved back over the third one's, the little headline there and then you move over to the side and that's your hurricane tracker. So they really think about this like, and we're not the only ones who have figured this out. It is a universal truth for sure.

Scott: Yeah, absolutely. You could take that, you could literally probably map this over any, any news website that's out there right now and you will see the same pattern and notice how they, they also funnel and taper it down to move you beneath the fold. But the most important information is above the fold and this specifically to a website.

Derrick: And then next you were gonna talk a little bit about social proof, correct?

Scott: Yeah, I just wanna touch upon something that is a simple and costless pretty much costless solution to a very traditional challenge. Social proof and social proof asserts to your customer that you weren't the only one that those people trust other people more than they do companies. So if they're making a decision and they know a large group of people, their peers have made that same decision, it's the right one. It's remarkable. Some of the upshots we see when we, we tend to use this very, very simple solution. There was a study done for a restaurant menu example and what they did is they found that restaurant managers could increase the demand for a particular dish on their menus, but they didn't have to increase the spend on upgrading recipes, ingredients, hiring new staff and changing the descriptions. All they had to do was put a label that said most popular next to the dish. The upshots were remarkable in across America and Beijing. They saw an increase to specific dishes with social proof anywhere from 13 to 22%. And so something to think about, it's if you had a digital menu right now, there's nothing that would stop you to to try this tactic.

Derrick: Yeah, so we talked about a lot today. So kind of wanna do a little bit of a recap on those three key takeaways. We started off by talking about where design has the biggest impact. We said you know, the stacking lane, the menu, the pay station, that's biggest impact on purchase decision and your ROI. Everything else is gonna be mostly brand awareness. Secondly, we talked about what influences consumer decisions. We talked about storytelling, cognitive strain, how to avoid it and time limitations. And then lastly we talked a little bit about the visual shortcuts to speed up people's decision making process.

We talked about our gestalt principles, how we utilize those to help with cognitive strain as well as reading flow and this maybe this little idea of social proof to help bolster one of your packages over top of other ones or other things. That concludes everything. So we're gonna jump into some Q&A at this point. You guys are welcome to throw stuff into the Q&A and we will try to answer some of those questions now. Alright.

Scott: See a couple coming in.

Derrick: Yeah, here we go. Cool.

Scott: That, that's interesting. So there's one is around that social proof we just touched upon. Do you have to prove that it is the most popular?

Derrick: Yeah, no this is perfect. I actually have the answer for this 'cause I thought about this, this is actually really funny and I've got a great answer for this. Is that no you don't because it's not false advertising by saying most popular, it could be the most popular for you and your friends, that's good enough. But your consumer is going to read that as other people as their peers saying that it's the most popular. Which even though it may not be a hundred percent true, that's how people are gonna read it. So no, not necessarily.

Scott: Here's a really good question. How does the importance of urgency of a decision change at IBA where the customer has several minutes to make a decision while the wash in front of this process? That's a really great question. We don't specialize in IBA but we can promise you the behavior will change a little bit if you have unlimited amount of time. I don't think we would elevate system one versus system two. The importance as high as we would in express tunnel if you have, you know, three to five minutes to wait or seven minutes, whatever that is for IBA, you can probably get a little bit more analytical in system two we would just heighten system one's importance in express, if that makes sense. So I think it's just a, we would weight its significance a little bit more in express versus IBA, but that's a great question.

Derrick: Yeah, I could also see us potentially weighting unlimited even more at an IBA where we're really trying to hammer that home and set that so that people, you know, you're getting that recurring income. So emphasizing that even more than it is on just our express menus. That's great.

Scott: There was, I have another question here. Am I at advantage or disadvantage for a regular menu versus a digital menu? We get this question a lot. There's pros and cons to each. I think if you have a regular menu, the advantage you have is just verticality on your site. So in other words, if you have a six stack and somebody's 60 feet away and you have a menu that is, let's say, I don't know, 15 feet high, 10 feet high, they can, you can prime them more easily for that top package at longer distances with digital, since it's shorter, they're pretty much gonna have that decision when they're at the point of sale.

However, I think as we move along in this market, digital is just the way to go. I mean, to be honest, I think you could, we're moving, we're trying to move to more dynamic pricing models. There's more updates. We can prime them with unlimited ads and the the cool thing for us is we can test different locations digital, let's say if you have a digital menu at location one and you have a digital menu at location two, we as creatives can pull certain levers and know what's working and what's not and and test into things which is super cool.

Derrick: Yeah, to your point, I think flexibility is a huge seller for digital. The ability to just change that on the fly without a big expense is really nice. So we are definitely leaning that direction. Moving forward we've got a few questions asking kinda the same thing which is are we gonna be sending out the meeting video? We will be sending out the slide deck as well as the recording of this. I believe we touched on that at the beginning in the next like week or two. So just so you guys are aware.

Scott: We might be good Derrick.

Derrick: I think we might be good. Well it was a pleasure talking with all of you and thanks for your questions everybody, and have a wonderful rest of your week.